Red Named

I’ve always found red named none bosses loathsome. It’s lazy and completely devoid of tactical options. I say none bosses. But I don’t even like them on bosses. By red we’re of course talking about immunities against everything but DPS. And it’s dumb. The reason why it’s dumb it’s because it makes tactical feats meaningless. It means that everything boils down to hammering the same sod until it’s down. And it prolongs meaningless battles into a matter of kiting. 10-15 minutes? Doesn’t matter; a player will resort to whatever cheese ‘strategy’ he/she can in order to win.

Worse are of course the red named mini bosses or just red named something. Like the priestesses out of Citw, the helmed horrors at the first end fight in haunted halls or the battleraging skellies in the end fight in the shadowdragon raid (or rednamed elementals out of the red dragon raid). It’s dumb. See – I understand the mini bosses in Shroud. They’re like hot shots. Even if the all immunities is silly I understand it. But I don’t understand red named battleragers, priestesses or molten lava rock ellies or whatever their name is. I mean there are already 2 giant ellies in the red dragons raid. Purple named. But there’s also tons of red named stuff. Here’s the main issue. What’s the point of boosting tactical feats and using them strategically if they’re only useful on a very few regular critters?

Why no allowing a narrow set of tactical feats on these ‘mini bosses’ and make a few really nasty ones red named? In Citw it could be a red named priestess that has the power to resurrect the other priestesses, making taking everything else down a tactical choice and her a real target. Same with the battleragers. Make it hard to knock down, but they already respawn as it is; making them red named AND respawning is just idiotic. In fact the cheesiest tactic right now is to take agro, jump over the edge down so the battleragers end up running along the edge trying to get too you. Meanwhile the rest keep getting rid of everything else. It’s dumb and cheesy and it removes any use of brain and tactics. All you do is run in slowmo in circles or jump when you got agro.

Same with the red dragons raid; you keep running them in circles instead of knocking them over; heck don’t change the darn HP – just allow people to slow them down, knock them over etc. I get it; they don’t want high DC casters to finger everything they see. Well give them perma deathward – just those. If they are indeed the cream of the very elite soldiers then limit WHAT can be used to destroy them but allow people to use the full range of tactical choices. Just DPS turns into a cheesy kite fest. Being able to cripple, trip, slow or otherwise limited these massive ‘challenges’ is a good thing. Limit how long they are – shorten tactical options. trip – 5 seconds flat down.

It gets tiring to wade through the sewage of red named ‘regular’ soldiers. It’s cheesy and boring. I’ve never found maximizing DPS all that appealing and it limits everything down to bonk, energy burst and slam. Plus the raids wouldn’t change functionally; you still have to deal with the battleragers/lava elementals/necro lords/priestesses – it’s just that you would allow people the full range of interesting tactics. Streamlining everything down to cheese agro components, maximum DPS and kiting for 20 minutes in circles makes for a tepid if not lackluster experience. It cheapens the challenge.

Like the raid the other day; We had it all under control until the lag monster hit us, wiped the entire party. One stayed, we got back our groove, went back in and cheesed the entire thing. Someone took agro and jump off edge and for the most the battleragers ran along the edge trying to get to whatever was below. Idiotic. And the rest of us kept hammering everything else to a pulp. Other than the unfortunately lag out the raid was 2 part cheese all finish.

Lets hope that Turbine won’t continue on this trend of making everything red named just to make things more ‘challenging’. I don’t need the extra 10-15 minutes of kiting cheese. And it’s not even remotely challenging nor interesting to be perma slowed and slammed to the ground every 10 second. That’s the kind of kiting that bores the heck out of me. Somewhere and somehow someone figured that the best experience is doing the same over and over for as long as possible, and not to make the experience medium long, rewarding and hectic.

Take the Shadowwyrm raid. How many puzzles do anyone need in order to feel challenged? Apparently 6 mirror puzzles and 2 other ones. It’s dumb. Some love puzzles, but for the love of anything holy wouldn’t 2 more challenging mirror puzzles, 1 on each side be enough. And maybe one other puzzle challenge? Then an end battle with some interesting features? Like now? Where you don’t waste 30-45 minutes doing puzzles for an end spanking due to dungeon alert spawns or lag?

Shroud was always a perfect raid for me. Easy to get too – take your boat dude or tele. Talk to guy and enter. 5 segments. 1 puzzle, a few challenges like prepping and dropping stuff at the same time. Some portal beatdown with possible portal keepers. It was possible to fail at any of them but at the worst it was 45 minutes and now it’s down to 25ish. Heck the greatest challenge seems to be too much dps so prepping the mini bosses might be an issue.

But at the height of the shroud you talked about 30 minutes, intense run with a puzzle where everyone had a part.

I also like ToD – separate the first boss instance, kite the shadows in the second and tank the surprise pit fiend to beat down boss, for extra bonus – beat both pit fiends. Not bad. Easy to get too once flagged and challenging enough when 20 was the max level.

Chrono is good too, at it’s prime it had lots of challenge. Now it’s a quick 20+ romp of 3 bosses but you could easily expand to get some extra chests. Very little cheese and a genuine need for a tank in the end fight, back then the fire breath was actually lethal.

The 2 subt raids are a mixed bag. Back in the day the doggie one was a frequent fail. The other one not as much but the exploding bats could be tricky. The only really bad thing was the dumb run through the wilderness, many times most of the group would run and stragglers either get lost or killed by re-spawns. The raids themselves were not bad and the introduction of new named stuff on Hard and Elite good, especially since hard was generally hard and elite insane. Both raids were not long, dependent on DPS it was possible to finish before the 20 mark and both raids had their thing; exploding bats at the end for one and the continues overwhelming spawn until beholders swarmed the place with the others. All of them possible to defeat with tactics (like stun or trip) except the red named Orthons.

I know that some like Lord of Blades and the raid itself is not bad. It’s hectic and where a good tank can shine. But the run through 2 wilderness areas absorbing over an hour of time just to play a shorter raid is idiotic. It’s just dumb. Again – very little red named cheese. Sure, 2 massive golems that need to be downed at the same time but that’s minor and forgivable, and in Lord of Blades you can stun and trip spawns (except dogs, they’re there to spit their arcane ooze and have someone cheese kite them). If it wasn’t for the dumb constant run through wilderness this could be a good often run raid (of course what really killed it was the introduction of 5 more levels – making the items you create more or less worthless overnight dps wise).

I like FoT, again – the talking part takes up most of the time but it adds character (kind of like the boring talking scene at the end of citw). Lots of red named stuff, all of them needs to be dropped at the same time, but it’s not like you’re going to trip those smaller dragons and giants anyways, plus they don’t have 3 billion HP – it’s easy to overlook red named cheese when you can dps things down relatively smoothly. Other than that it’s a quick raid as long as people know how to coordinate stuff, there’s definately a part for tanks in this raid and it’s not one single slow minute. I loved this raid from the time it came out and I wish I could run it daily.

Citw – love the MOTU xpack but find this raid to be boring and tedious. The 3 most worst parts; red named priestesses, too long – it’s supposed to be a gauntlet but it’s nothing but a long boring run and SP zapping features. On EN it’s not too bad but idiotic. On EH it hurts, on EE it’s beyond idiotic. I mean the SP zapping hits you for thousands of SP – draining all of it for casters. And the idea that you can stand behind pillar to stop it is dumb because there’s no way to tell when she’s going to do it and who she’s targeting. It’s dumb. It’s a feature that makes the raid obnoxious, it doesn’t add challenge and it’s just another resource drain. The raid should be cut down, 1 less ball to drain, a slightly shorter romp and remove the red named stuff including SP drain. If you want to drain SP, have Lolth drop some kind of bomb so people could actually get out of the way. I you need that particular feature make it avoidable. The 4th terrible feature is the random heroic comm. For this long run it’s random if you get any. I get random drop of weapons. That’s no different from other raids, but for a 45min plus raid there’s no guarantee for a comm like with FoT. Plus most of the chests are garbage. Here’s the difference, with Shroud that one chest was always rewarding. Either it was mats or shards. You were always moving towards a goal. With citw you can get 7 chests of garbage, like ghostbane galore. The idea of rewarding players for doing all the balls and keeping Anna from getting hurt is always poked in the eye by the random comm and chests full of monkey poo. It makes the raid terrible.

The best part of these new raids are accessibility. I do wish there was a way to direct tele to the area via expanded teleportation, but you can at least unlock a direct tele to the raid entrances and the forge. Kudos, no shard cost and no need to wilderness romp waste time. And the new raids are not bad per say. Like with Shroud you’re always getting something. Not always the soul, but always scales and ingots. That’s good. The red dragons one is hectic. Good, the constant spawn until you get dungeon alert, stupid. And as I mentioned about Shadowwyrm. Shorten the amount of puzzles. Too many, too much doing nothing and puzzles just feel stupid anyways in excess. And please, stop with the red named morose additions. They’re not challenging. They’re tedious. Everything becomes cheese and DPS; like constant slow down, knockdown and hammering on someone for 3 minutes. Reminds me of the old epic hold, woo woo sticks and bazillion HP bags.

What we need now is epic shroud. Keep it similar, change a few things for sake of epic-ness and let us upgrade our GS items and weapons to Epic version. Keep them level 22 max. Like That removes the glut of old GS items and allows people to rerun heroic shroud for more TR items and then you have a newer GS 2 items for the 22-30 romp for ETRs. It would be marvelous.


4 thoughts on “Red Named

  1. grimorde

    So much agreement for the use of tactical feats etc on red names – they should be difficult but not impossible to trip etc. And I’ve been telling everyone who will listen that we should have epic Vale & epic GS for about a year.

    I do think the Deathwyrm raid will eventually get to that 30 minute run. Or close. When Shroud first came out it took people hours to complete it πŸ™‚

  2. Luedwig

    Might be a good time to “suggest” the idea that the red named have DCs that can be “tapped”. They could have a value that begins at the edge of a specialist’s range(beyond or just inside) that can be lowered by successive attempts. This might open up the strategic coordination of adventuring-units that share their dc-attempts to make a red named vulnerable. Turbine could easily move such a suggestion into player council territory. Don’t think they get far with only stupid, cheese and dumb. πŸ˜‰

  3. Froz

    I always thought a system of thresholds would be nice before blanket or particular immunity kicked in. A simple counter that ticks up for how many times a Red Name has suffered a particular disabling status effect or state, such as being tripped, stunned, or dazed. Once a certain number is reached, then the immunity activates. Until the number is reached, players are free to attempt their tactical feats as much as they deem necessary.

    Or so the core concept of the idea goes. Everything else is fitting it to taste/balance, such as how many times a red named mob should be permitted to suffer that state, or whether or not triggering that threshold activates all the rest of the Red Name immunities as we know them, or they just become immune to that particular state, one at a time. Ultimately though, this would give a shot at significant tactical game changers, without overly rewarding whole packs of players spamming it to fish 1’s out of the enemy saving throws.

    Just throwing an example out there, I would speculate 3 times with each state would be okay, and triggering the immunity only pertains to that one state. Three should be enough times of successfully tripping or stunning a Red Name to noticeably impact battle. Maybe your idea of how many allowed successes would be appropriate are different. Maybe the numbers could vary on a per-state basis. Maybe it could be coded to be an adjustable number on a creature by creature basis. As a caveat: presumably there would be other facets Turbine would actually have to measure and balance rather than dishing out blanket immunity – such as only allowing Red Names to suffer Improved Trip only as long as players do so the fight does not become a communal exercise in curb-stomping.


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